Before I type the next part, let me admit that in doing so I sound like one of those "cooky people" who subscribe to a Polly-anic view of the world, have multiple cats and plants...

which I am not...

However, in my search for mental health, forgiveness study and journaling has been very helpful...

Have either of you read about forgiveness as a path to healing or learned about it through your respective therapy sessions?

Much social science has been devoted to forgiveness as a trainable skill which can be healing. I suggest the book Forgiveness is a Choice, by Enright--for the more academic approach and Forgive for Good, by Luskin--for a more self-help approach..

I bailed on my first marriage when I was 24, and I think that divorce did me good. I'm married again now, and my present husband and I are a good match.

I can't extrapolate this to your situation, because I'm not you.

However, when I was a teenager and my parents were engaging in the same stuff you and Donna are, I lobbied hard to get my mother to leave my father. I couldn't stand it - it hurt too much to watch them together - and they yelled at me A LOT. I'm an only child.

Ultimately my mother stayed - my father got cancer soon after, and I swear that was the only thing that slapped some sense into all three of us - the arguing downgraded to bickering, which was a bit of a relief - like the pain of a bruise is almost pleasant after you've gotten rid of your toothache enough to feel it.

A decade later my dad died of dementia - and I feel that if we'd left, I don't know if he'd have even lasted that long. It gave me enough time to forgive him, so that was valuable. But I also have my own mental issues I struggle with almost daily that I can trace back directly to the experience of being screamed at by him on a nightly basis.

So if you're thinking of the kids, think around the subject from all angles.

I don't pretend to have an answer, but that's my input.

It's tough to recognize problems in your marriage, and they to find a way to work through them. Sometimes the same behavior patterns in how we treat each other are tough to break, but they need to be broken in order to move on. This can suck the double big one, I know only too well.

Good luck, Pete.

Why don't you write this down and show Donna? You seem to have worded real feelings in a thoughtful way here. I think you care about her happiness, truly, though you both seem caught in a cycle of preserving your own feelings. It must be stressful. It's hard to be a good person when you seem locked in every mistake you have made, I feel for ya bro.

Man, that sounds really awful. I can just imagine the tension in the home - that "feeling in the air." I hate that.

At least you are wanting to do something about it - rather than throw it all away. But I'm a proponent of divorce, if two people are just going to hurt each other and their children more with each passing day. It's better than everyone suffering, so it's hard, either way...

When did it start changing? Maybe it would be good to revisit what attracted you to each other in the first place.

And don't feel bad about "retreating" and being silent. That's the man's way of dealing with conflict with a woman, and perfectly natural. The "cave" thing, from the Mars/Venus book. It's one thing that is true out of all that gobbledygook.

One of the best/worst things in my life was a 4 year relationship with a fellow hardheaded fighter. The longer we were together, the better we got at pushing each others' buttons. It seems like once you get good at doing it, stopping is almost impossible. I can only imagine what a long marriage to him would have been like. He is the reason that I am a much better wife than I would have been.

I see your point about being able to be happy in another relationship, but it is probably better not to think about it. Perhaps, avoidance is a good first step. It could break some habits. Hopefully, you'll both be able to get past this.

why do you choose to remain married?

I'm not convinced that being a broken divorced man is better than being a broken married one.

I would add...I think it might be quieter though, which sounds appealing.

Please excuse me if I'm out of line here, but (after reading your posts)I really can't see much future for your marriage. I'm in the exact same situation, but with the genders reversed.
In spite of your whole relationship backstory,the children, the emotions involved etc, do you really want to live out another 40 years in this mutual "I'm right, you're wrong" scenario?